tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post7807679049602388031..comments2024-03-27T23:43:30.204-07:00Comments on Dungeons and Digressions: Goblinoid, Orkish, and Artificial Languagesze bulettehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15603716850479808633noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-41731681332416996092009-08-26T14:53:05.109-07:002009-08-26T14:53:05.109-07:00As luck would have it, Wired ran a little piece to...As luck would have it, Wired ran a little piece today on constructed languages...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/08/top-ten-geekiest-constructe-languages/" rel="nofollow">Top 10 Geekiest Constructed Languages</a>Don Snabulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05911180639753508627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-51306835281050487032009-08-26T11:28:59.953-07:002009-08-26T11:28:59.953-07:00Again, as I said, I think it's largely a matte...Again, as I said, I think it's largely a matter of semantics. If as you say, "common tongue of the region' --that is, the campaigning area", then all you're saying is that everyone speaks the same language. Nitpicking over the term "Universal" maybe? Even a universally understood language needs to be learned, I never said it didn't. I also said that it's "a universal language in most settings" and went on to suggest the use of dialects and other languages as plot twists, and that the game itself implies the existence of other languages via Read Languages or spells. I'm aware that Greyhawk (for example) refers to different langauges (as perhaps does your Urutsk). I dunno, seems like there will always be fine points to discuss in this game (even decades later) and break down into the smallest units possible, maybe that's where this has gone... ;-)ze bulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603716850479808633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-61683026786064685082009-08-26T10:56:47.799-07:002009-08-26T10:56:47.799-07:00ZB: I think you poked holes in your own point. Af...ZB: I think you poked holes in your own point. After all, someone would still need to learn Common at some point, wouldn't they?<br />--To think that monsters, humanoids, demi-humans, and humans could all make the same sounds and be understood in some sort of Universal language seems like a bigger stretch than having Fragish being the Common tongue of Greater and Outer Fragia.<br /><br />> shrug <<br />Game on!Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-53960509500914879202009-08-26T09:58:10.992-07:002009-08-26T09:58:10.992-07:00You might look into the Europeans who settled into...You might look into the Europeans who settled into the Western US and their forms of communication with local Native Americans based on their existing languages and jargons.<br /><br />The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_Jargon" rel="nofollow">Chinook Jargon</a> used between fur traders and Northwest Native Americans serves as an interesting example.<br /><br />(The comments on the dispute section of the wiki page look quite interesting as well)Don Snabulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05911180639753508627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-72277307943056205062009-08-26T09:52:15.699-07:002009-08-26T09:52:15.699-07:00@bat - thanks for the heads up, I updated the post...@bat - thanks for the heads up, I updated the post with a link I found after reading up on Za Frumi.ze bulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603716850479808633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-18395313586375766852009-08-26T07:09:46.757-07:002009-08-26T07:09:46.757-07:00I've always envisioned "common" as b...I've always envisioned "common" as being whatever language was most commonly used. Obviously, for my games in Ohio, it's English. Where Esperanto may come in handy would be as a Thieve's Cant, perhaps?Tim Sniderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17390608104314125626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-25809695024952988192009-08-26T03:29:45.547-07:002009-08-26T03:29:45.547-07:00Za Frumi is a weird band that performs in Tolkien&...Za Frumi is a weird band that performs in Tolkien's orc language. I only have two of their albums so far, but they are very moody and strange. The language is sometimes a bit unnerving, yet, I don't know, magical?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-35829319705811977882009-08-26T00:17:12.376-07:002009-08-26T00:17:12.376-07:00Maybe so and I don't doubt it, but for game pl...Maybe so and I don't doubt it, but for game play purposes, what difference does it make? As ethnocentric as it may be, from the PC's point of view, it might as well be universal. Unknown languages (extinct or exotic) are hinted at existing in spells and thieves' abilities (AD&D), assuming the rules aren't just referring to monsters and demi-human languages. Beyond that, wading deeply into a large territory that speaks an unknown language seems like it would become a drag on game play (after the novelty wears off). At which point players will either return to their own land or else pick up the new language, so it might as well be Common again. Maybe it's not so much as misinterpreted as it is a matter of semantics or just simplification for purposes of gameplay.ze bulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603716850479808633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-22708666761182311612009-08-25T23:03:49.026-07:002009-08-25T23:03:49.026-07:00I've commented on this before:
* The 'com...I've commented on this before:<br /><br />* The 'common tongue' is misinterpreted as a universal language, when, in the earliest RPG materials I have seen, it is identified merely as the 'common tongue of the region' --that is, the campaigning area.Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-5078673612784042432009-08-25T20:20:18.110-07:002009-08-25T20:20:18.110-07:00It definitely doesn't sound natural! I'm ...It definitely doesn't sound natural! I'm willing to overlook that for the same reason you mention (familiar enough to figure out words & phrases).ze bulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603716850479808633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2326833531919898477.post-65915220429224187462009-08-25T20:11:55.011-07:002009-08-25T20:11:55.011-07:00Interestingly, I use Esperanto as a stand-in for h...Interestingly, I use Esperanto as a stand-in for humanity's universal language in a science fiction game I wrote. I found it's familiar enough that most people can vaguely figure out the meaning of random words and phrases and exotic enough that it seems plausibly "futuristic."James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com